600D owner - Full Frame or 7D?

[Paulstw]

I may, be able to upgrade some gear in the next few months, maybe even sooner, and I am seriously thinking of my options.

I'm starting to find my style in Landscape, street, and I will be doing portrait in the coming months. Most of the time I find my self in low light, and I love astro photography.

I do love Wildlife stuff however, I can see what is needed for that style and I find it up there with sports and very particular equipment and lenses are needed for that stuff. That'll come later.

I have been doing a lot of stock photography lately too.

Anyway... enough of that...

Not doubting the 600D at all, however, I'm going to be taking this seriously this year, and for me the 600D noise levels are hard to work with.

I was looking at the 6D, and 5d mkII as possible new purchases, and a 24-105 f4L as an all around type of lens.

I potentially have about £1800 to spend, with that coming from a 6D and lens being £1789 from Digital Rev, so that's my bar.

What does the community think?

Thanks,

Paul

[colin C]

Re: 600D owner - Full Frame or 7D?

I think the 6D is tremendous value for money and you will be amazed at the quality jump, especially coupled to a 24 - 105mm.

[nickorando]

Re: 600D owner - Full Frame or 7D?

What Colin said. The 600D is a great little camera, it really is - the quality is basically exactly the same as the 7D in such a compact package. However, the 6D is in a different league. If you want AF in low light, the 6D is a massively more convincing bet than the 5D II, so - what Colin said.

[Paulstw]

Re: 600D owner - Full Frame or 7D?

I think the 6D is tremendous value for money and you will be amazed at the quality jump, especially coupled to a 24 - 105mm.

Thanks Colin. Sometimes researching a body is good, but asking professionals is even better.

What Colin said. The 600D is a great little camera, it really is - the quality is basically exactly the same as the 7D in such a compact package. However, the 6D is in a different league. If you want AF in low light, the 6D is a massively more convincing bet than the 5D II, so - what Colin said.

Low light and wider field are my needs for now, so I'll surely be assessing my options in the coming months. Thanks :)

[Hereford_EOS]

Re: 600D owner - Full Frame or 7D?

The 600D is classed as an entry-level camera as with all xxxD cameras.
To step up then you are looking at a xxD or a xD with the xD being the best of the bunch.
Example: 600D > 60D > 7D.
The 7D being Canon's flagship APS-C (crop) camera.
The 6D is again an entry-level full-frame camera.
Example: 6D > 5DIII > 1DX.
The 1DX being Canon's flagship full-frame camera.

When shooting wildlife on a full-frame camera you often need a big lens, 400mm, 500mm which come at a cost and additional weight.
The 500mm f/4L IS weighs 3.190 kg and costs £7500+
Whilst you can get a similar FOV with an APS-C (crop) camera and a 300mm lens. (300mm x1.6 = 480mm).
Many members here will use an APS-C camera for wildlife with stunning results.

For landscape photography people often think of a wide-angle lens and for "serious" landscape photography then a full-frame camera is king.
Yet you can get similar results using an APS-C camera, and again, many members here are displaying some stunning landscape images with APS-C cameras.
As with the big telephoto lenses used on full-frame cameras you can get similar FOV with wide-angle lenses on an APS-C camera, just reverse the maths. 24mm divided by 1.6 = 15mm; so 15mm lens on an APS-C camera will give the same FOV as a 24mm lens on a full-frame camera.

For low-light then the 5DIII and 1D-X are kings of the full-frame Canon cameras and the 7D is the best of the APS-C cameras.
You can always buy a flash or use reflectors for added light or buy faster lenses (f/1.2-f/2.8).
The Canon EF 135mm f/2L being one of the best at approx £850.00

As everyone will tell you; the real investment is in quality lenses.
The latest cameras are out of date every 18 months to 2 years whilst quality lenses hold their own for many years.

Your 600D is a very good and capable camera.
I would seriously consider upgrading your 18-55mm ISII Kit and 75-300mm F4 USM lenses.
You will be pleased with the results and (IMHO) this is a better investment.
Take a look at my top rated zoom lenses Here or my top rated prime lenses Here

[Paulstw]

Re: 600D owner - Full Frame or 7D?

The 600D is classed as an entry-level camera as with all xxxD cameras.
To step up then you are looking at a xxD or a xD with the xD being the best of the bunch.
Example: 600D > 60D > 7D.
The 7D being Canon's flagship APS-C (crop) camera.
The 6D is again an entry-level full-frame camera.
Example: 6D > 5DIII > 1DX.
The 1DX being Canon's flagship full-frame camera.

When shooting wildlife on a full-frame camera you often need a big lens, 400mm, 500mm which come at a cost and additional weight.
The 500mm f/4L IS weighs 3.190 kg and costs £7500+
Whilst you can get a similar FOV with an APS-C (crop) camera and a 300mm lens. (300mm x1.6 = 480mm).
Many members here will use an APS-C camera for wildlife with stunning results.

For landscape photography people often think of a wide-angle lens and for "serious" landscape photography then a full-frame camera is king.
Yet you can get similar results using an APS-C camera, and again, many members here are displaying some stunning landscape images with APS-C cameras.
As with the big telephoto lenses used on full-frame cameras you can get similar FOV with wide-angle lenses on an APS-C camera, just reverse the maths. 24mm divided by 1.6 = 15mm; so 15mm lens on an APS-C camera will give the same FOV as a 24mm lens on a full-frame camera.

For low-light then the 5DIII and 1D-X are kings of the full-frame Canon cameras and the 7D is the best of the APS-C cameras.
You can always buy a flash or use reflectors for added light or buy faster lenses (f/1.2-f/2.8).
The Canon EF 135mm f/2L being one of the best at approx £850.00

As everyone will tell you; the real investment is in quality lenses.
The latest cameras are out of date every 18 months to 2 years whilst quality lenses hold their own for many years.

Your 600D is a very good and capable camera.
I would seriously consider upgrading your 18-55mm ISII Kit and 75-300mm F4 USM lenses.
You will be pleased with the results and (IMHO) this is a better investment.
Take a look at my top rated zoom lenses Here or my top rated prime lenses Here

Very well put together there Stephen thanks.
I do appreciate what you are saying about the conversion factors of crop sensor and division of XXmm lenses to give the desired effect.

I shall maybe need to do more digging. One avenue would be a 7D and better glass.

The plot thickens :)

[Longshot]

Re: 600D owner - Full Frame or 7D?

Very well put together there Stephen thanks.
I do appreciate what you are saying about the conversion factors of crop sensor and division of XXmm lenses to give the desired effect.

I shall maybe need to do more digging. One avenue would be a 7D and better glass.

The plot thickens :)

As you say the plot thickens, reviews all rate the 6D better than the 5D MK11 but I'd go your 7D route and better glass, it's a great camera and now a lot cheaper (around £600/$950 in the US-new) bodies don't hold there price as said. The discussions that EF-L lenses are better suited to FF on the short end like the 24-105 have to be consider. Me with your budget I'd go 7D with glass that fits F/F long term.
Graham

[Paulstw]

Re: 600D owner - Full Frame or 7D?

As you say the plot thickens, reviews all rate the 6D better than the 5D MK11 but I'd go your 7D route and better glass, it's a great camera and now a lot cheaper (around £600/$950 in the US-new) bodies don't hold there price as said. The discussions that EF-L lenses are better suited to FF on the short end like the 24-105 have to be consider. Me with your budget I'd go 7D with glass that fits F/F long term.
Graham

That's weird how you should say that, because I have been looking at the 7D, because better glass beats better body as tests show. No point in buying a better body with my current lens stock as I won't yield any better results that would be noticeable.

I do however, like the idea of the better focussing system in the 7D, and while I'd love a FF body, I think it's safe to say my photos of late show that I really should be concentrating on other things.

[celtex]

Re: 600D owner - Full Frame or 7D?

I think that eveyone is right to keep saying that glass is more important than body, but, Like you I have a 600d and I love it, it has been great, for what it was intended for (for me that was getting me back into photography with an affordable dslr) but I have found that I have quickly reached some limitations with it, low light performance is one of them.

I was trying yesterday to shoot some birds (not my preferred genre but I like to try everything) with a 70 to 300 mm tamron I had to go to iso 800 and even then I had to be wide open at F4.5 or 5 to get a shutter speed of 1/40 - this was in daylight, but overcast, cloudy and dull - when the sun peeks through the clouds just a little bit, it is a whole different ball game - but for the most part - I have zero chance of getting in close with anything resembling a sharp shot - just cannot get the shutter speed fast enough or the aperture closed down to f8 or above.

And this was at iso 800 as I say, and the 600d, shows noticeable noise at 800, 1600 is terrible (with the above set up)

So I completely understand the desire to move up to a better, more capable body

I want to also!

Ian

[Paulstw]

Re: 600D owner - Full Frame or 7D?

I think that eveyone is right to keep saying that glass is more important than body, but, Like you I have a 600d and I love it, it has been great, for what it was intended for (for me that was getting me back into photography with an affordable dslr) but I have found that I have quickly reached some limitations with it, low light performance is one of them.

I was trying yesterday to shoot some birds (not my preferred genre but I like to try everything) with a 70 to 300 mm tamron I had to go to iso 800 and even then I had to be wide open at F4.5 or 5 to get a shutter speed of 1/40 - this was in daylight, but overcast, cloudy and dull - when the sun peeks through the clouds just a little bit, it is a whole different ball game - but for the most part - I have zero chance of getting in close with anything resembling a sharp shot - just cannot get the shutter speed fast enough or the aperture closed down to f8 or above.

And this was at iso 800 as I say, and the 600d, shows noticeable noise at 800, 1600 is terrible (with the above set up)

So I completely understand the desire to move up to a better, more capable body

I want to also!

Ian

Ian,

you have experienced exactly what I have with this body. The ISO above 800 is just not really that good. I don't even have the IS version of the telephoto so it makes for steady hands and bright days. I find myself these days, looking outside, and if it's at least over cast I don't even bother going out.

I've read this morning that noise levels in the 7D aren't really that different from the xxxD series so this has thrown a curveball to my plans. A guy I work with has the 7D, and never uses it. I did ask if I could borrow it for one lunchtime doing the same shots I took with the same lens in the same locations, but he denied my attempts. How rude lol

[Longshot]

Re: 600D owner - Full Frame or 7D?

Could you not hire a 7D for a day ? Pop over to Nova Scotia and you can borrow mine !
Graham

[Longshot]

Re: 600D owner - Full Frame or 7D?

PS Not this weekend as were due a big snow storm so your flight will be delayed ! Seriously, I can't comment on the noise levels but if you can pick up a 7D for the right money today-don't be frighten of Ebay provided they have GOOD long term feedback-it will leave you with over 1K on your budget for glass. With a bit of luck you could find a 70-200 L-non IS and a 24-105 L for what you have left, well that's my opinion.
Cheers
Graham

[Paulstw]

Re: 600D owner - Full Frame or 7D?

Thanks Graham lol
Once I figure out what I need above what I want, then I'm sure i'll end up going down the second hand route.
I'd love a 6D for the low light performance, however the AF system and frame rate of the 7D isn't one to sniff at. The 7D mkii is coming soon so that means the 7D will drop away in price, maybe an option then.

I will defo get the 24-105 f4L just because It's lenses before bodies, and if I feel the need after that I'd re-visit. I do need a good tripod first before anything, light stand, wireless flash deely boppers, and a few other things before a body.

I was just really wanting to get better and clearer stock photography shots, so starting with a lens upgrade should help out there. :)

[Woolley]

Re: 600D owner - Full Frame or 7D?

I was trying yesterday to shoot some birds (not my preferred genre but I like to try everything) with a 70 to 300 mm tamron I had to go to iso 800 and even then I had to be wide open at F4.5 or 5 to get a shutter speed of 1/40

However, with a better lens you could have gone to f/4 or even f/2.8 and also gained better contrast due to the quality glass. Up to two stops are available to you right there. The camera is dealing with what the lens is giving it, and that makes a much bigger difference than a better body allowing for increased ISO.

I've read this morning that noise levels in the 7D aren't really that different from the xxxD series so this has thrown a curveball to my plans.

It's the same sensor and processor, so will be similar. Dual processors might make some difference. However, I regularly push mine up to 1600 and sometimes 3200. A little RAW processing controls noise, making sure your exposure is spot on and doesn't need adjusting does also.