Some Photographers can be really quite cruel

[Paulstw]

Starting to notice a clear divide between new photographers and people in the industry for a long time. It's definitely not apparent on this forum at all. Just wanted to put that in there. However, I'm a member of a long standing stock agency and sometimes you need to ask questions on the forum.

My employer used an image of mine without my consent in a 500 run publication in a half page spread. This would have netted me about £400 if they had gone through the agency. I then found out that they are going to run it in a financial publication for about 1300 people. I've said I don't want my image used at all, and they think this is me being silly and stubborn.

I asked about my options on the other forum and while some were helpful, a lot of them were not. I posted the image in question and all I really got was abuse. Some comments are below.

"Don't give up your day job"
"Anyone could have taken that with a compact"
"The building is leaning, is it falling down too?"

The image was of rubble with my works building in the background. Not going to post it cause I deleted it from Flickr because I was also taunted about using Flickr. "You are on here moaning about someone using your image without consent and you use Flickr?"

Apparently I've not served enough time in photography to warrant demanding anything for my images. There's some 10,000 hours rule with photographers.

I try not to get too hot under the collar with this sort of thing, but it can really cripple your drive. Also apparently it's frowned upon to work full time and do photography on the side.

I am kind of lost with all of this and actually can't believe that this industry can be so cruel to new comers. It's certainly fired me down to the bottom of the ladder in terms of confidence and can't help but believe that there is probably some truth in their thoughts, as it echoes quite widely across different forums with regards to new folk.

Is this the sort of thing I'm getting myself into? I'm not on to seek validation for my work at all, or want anyone to pick me off the gravel after this fall but It's making me review my future procedures on sharing and work ethic.

Paul

[Nathaniel]

Re: Some Photographers can be really quite cruel

Paul,

I am NOT an expert nor pretend to be one. IMHO, it doesn't matter if you are a newbie or an experienced photographer. If your picture is being used without your permission, you should ask for payment either directly or through your agency. So my advice is "go for it" & demand payment. I hope you will be successful.

[MX5]

Re: Some Photographers can be really quite cruel

Paul

You have my sympathies .... but only 10,000 hours ;-)

In IT it's the opposite ... people like me with a knowledge spanning more decades that I dare admit ... and keeping abreast of the latest technologies ... are more and more being told by fast track types straight out of university that we know nothing ... experience counts for nowt.

But you have the rights to your photographs. So I agree with Nat.

[jimsphotography]

Re: Some Photographers can be really quite cruel

I agree with Nat - if you own the copyright then you should expect payment - perhaps you should seek some legal advice - I wonder if there are solicitors who specialise in this sort of thing and who might operate a no win no fee basis for their use
Hope this helps
James

[Paulstw]

Re: Some Photographers can be really quite cruel

I can't see my work being to helpful with the enquiries of a lawyer on this one. I missed out the part where I emailed said picture to the general manager as a "Do you like this pic" as the subject matter. I still don't think it gave them the right to use it, as I didn't give permission, but some would argue I was being stupid in doing that.

Yeah If I had that attitude in my IT job, 6 new folk wouldn't have jobs in the sector just now, as we take on trainees from college to help them out. Makes my job harder but I guess there's some worth.

[Nathaniel]

Re: Some Photographers can be really quite cruel

Maybe using a lawyer is a bit over the top I think, at this stage. I may be wrong here. However, it doesn't harm if you make the biggest noise and ask for payment. One who shouts the loudest usually gets away with it.

[celtex]

Re: Some Photographers can be really quite cruel

Don't worry about it Paul, just do your own thing, focus on your images/art/vison etc - ignore the negatives - your images are great, you put thought into them and you care about the end result, and the result s always great - that makes it art, your art. Ignore them.

I [I]can[I] understand where their feelings stem from, someone invests years of hard graft, many £'000's in kit and becomes a pro then along we come as 'amateurs' and take very good pictures - because technology has become less expensive and more advanced - (relative to when they started) - I am sure even some of us feel the same when some numpty with a smart phone takes a great image (and they do, and we have had this discussion before) - same with a music producer friend of mine - he used to make a great living producing records and sound tracks in his purpose-built studio that took him years to build up, along with all his knowledge and experience - now any spotty teenager can do the same in his bedroom with free software and a laptop - but that is life, so good luck to the spotty teenager.

But understanding why they feel this way does not give them the right to react that way, or mean that you can't produce, own, and sell great work

Keep going :-)

Ian

[wayne2418]

Re: Some Photographers can be really quite cruel

Don't worry about it Paul, just do your own thing, focus on your images/art/vison etc - ignore the negatives - your images are great, you put thought into them and you care about the end result, and the result s always great - that makes it art, your art. Ignore them.

I have to fully second the above... also if they have used one of your images without your express consent,then surely they are on the wrong side of the copyright laws !! Are'nt they ??.

[antoeknee]

Re: Some Photographers can be really quite cruel

Think I'm going to echo sentiments of others here. You take good images and they belong to you. Doesn't matter whether you're snapper or 'pro' (ignore the numpties with the negative comments probably just jealous anyway) I think any one using your image should have at least have had the decency to ask you if it was OK to use the image.

Wonder how your company would feel if you took day of without asking! Seriously though I don't think you're being unreasonable to ask for payment and certainly refuse use for anything else without recompense. Might be worth having paper trail for this.

[Paulstw]

Re: Some Photographers can be really quite cruel

I did email the accountant (who is said to be running this document with my image) and said that I really don't want my image used, and that I should be paid for its use. No reply, she read the email and closed it and that's been three days.

Short of going into their user spaces and deleting out the image then I don't really know the best course of action. As I said I think I'm just going to leave it. However, I like the taking the day off without telling them idea, I'd like to see how that would pan out lol

[Nathaniel]

Re: Some Photographers can be really quite cruel

Paul as you are more computer/IT literate than I am I would suggest that you go to the top brass i.e chief Exec (marked strickly personal) or write to the person marked chief Exec or General Manager (if you don't know the name) but always marked "strictly private". This way your letter/e-mail will go to the top. The top brass are usually more receptive to complaints, letters etc. Perhaps a letter is better as I don't know how you sent an e-mail without others seeing it i.e the lesser mortals. I have been personally very successful using my "modus operandi"!

[Paulstw]

Re: Some Photographers can be really quite cruel

Paul as you are more computer/IT literate than I am I would suggest that you go to the top brass i.e chief Exec (marked strickly personal) or write to the person marked chief Exec or General Manager (if you don't know the name) but always marked "strictly private". This way your letter/e-mail will go to the top. The top brass are usually more receptive to complaints, letters etc. Perhaps a letter is better as I don't know how you sent an e-mail without others seeing it i.e the lesser mortals. I have been personally very successful using my "modus operandi"!

The top brass is the person I emailed with the image in the first place (General Manager). He then passed it on to the publicist guy who then passed it to the accountant.

[antoeknee]

Re: Some Photographers can be really quite cruel

How friendly is your General Manager? Open enough for you to have quiet chat with him about situation?

[paul linton]

Re: Some Photographers can be really quite cruel

Sorry to hear your troubles Paul,
At the end of the day its your image and NOBODY has the right to use it without your permission, did they print your name with the picture to give you some credit I'm guessing NOT , These days people don't understand the values of an image and think they can use them whenever and where ever they like.
The ball is firmly in your court you have every right to challenge them and get a result that's acceptable to you.

Paul

[Nathaniel]

Re: Some Photographers can be really quite cruel

Paul, keep on badgering requesting a proper reply and payment for your photograph. You have done it the right way. If no reply, as suggested by Antoeknee request a meeting with the Manager. After all you are in the "right"!