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    When the client and photographer disagree on quality...

    This has happened to me with my first commission - but not in the usual 'dissatisfied client' manner. To explain...

    My first 'commission' was to take some photographs of Lupton House, a nearby stately home that is now being run by a volunteer group with charity status whose objective is to fund restoration. I attended a children’s WW1 commemoration event there organised by Brixham Museum where my grandsons got to dress up as soldiers and march around a bit. They loved it and I got some nice photographs of them having fun for the family album.

    I was approached by a lady who, it transpired, was the manager in charge of the house, and had seen me wielding a camera a cut above the smart phones in the hands of the mums and dads and asked if I'd take some shots of the house for them to use in promotional material. I said I'd be delighted and willing to do it for nothing. I'd planned to take some snaps anyway to show my daughter how much it had changed since it was the school she attended.

    While the little soldiers were refighting the Battle of Mons I wandered around photographing the house but the limitations of my kit soon became clear as the wide end of my 15-85 wasn’t wide enough on my 7D, the midday sun far too bright on the big white house and I didn’t have a tripod.

    Back home I stitched images together but this had the inevitable result of converging verticals and bent rooflines (some of which I adjusted in Photoshop) that, combined with the overhead sun meant I was disappointed with the results and decided the best solution was to return with a WA lens and tripod.

    Anyway, I put what I had on Flickr and sent the house a link explaining it was a work-in-progress to ensure they were happy with the compositions and that I'd return when the light was more sympathetic, there were fewer people around and do it again properly.

    Yesterday was another WW1 day and I bumped into the lady who said that she and her staff were delighted with the pictures, that they were just what they needed to promote the place for weddings and there was no need to retake them. I said some were so distorted prospective punters may think the place is falling down but she was adamant they’re perfect as they are.

    Obviously I’m happy they’re happy but I want them to be better for personal pride as much as anything. She has requested them on a CD so I’ll wait until I have my new lens and go well equipped when I drop it off.

    Meanwhile I think I’ll get some more practise straightening crooked buildings in Photoshop (and out on the scaffolding around my house!)

    There’s a link to the Flickr page:<here>

    Cheers,
    John

    #2
    Re: When the client and photographer disagree on quality...

    You're not alone with this John - it's happened to me on several occasions now. I've taken photographs at events and people have asked to see them. The feedback I've had is generally something like "Very good photographs, can we have copies? Have you ever thought of doing that professionally?" (The answer is a resounding, "No!")

    I've come to the conclusion that as photographers, whether amateurs or more experienced, we have an interest in photography and specifically in composition, so tend to be more critical of our own photographs while others just want to see what they see with their own eyes - they're generally not interested in "different."

    Yes, it professional pride - even with amateurs!
    Canon EOS 6D Mk II, 700D, Canon 24-105mm L, 100-400mm, 100mm f2.8 L Macro.

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      #3
      Re: When the client and photographer disagree on quality...

      I think that anyone that takes photography more seriously than a "happy Snapper" will inevitably be over critical of their photos I know that I am guilty of this. A few people have seen photographs that I have taken, which I'm not impressed with but they loved them because they aren't looking at every technical aspect they just see an image that they like.
      1Dmk2, Canon 70-200 f4 L Non-IS & a borrowed canon 28mm

      Flickr
      Facebook
      www.paulraybouldphotography.co.uk

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        #4
        Re: When the client and photographer disagree on quality...

        This is actually based on "personal opinions" and opinions can always differ. Of course there are certain rules like 2/3rds/1/3rds etc, compositions and so on (but even these can differ). So perhaps it is best to go along with the majority opinion. Having said that my photographs for the North Wales International music festival have been accepted by the Daily post and one everday for 5 days will appear from Monday 1st Sept. I gave the series to the Festival Manager in June of this year, and were kept under wraps, till the official launch of the Festival w.e.f 1st Sept. Hence the question of "quality" is actually subjective. I gave the organisers 10 photos & they selected 5! (50%
        Canon 6D; Canon 760D;Canon G15;Canon 40mm f2.8(Pancake);Canon 50mm f1.8(ii); Canon 17mm-40mm f4L;Canon EF-S 10-18mm f4.5-5.6 IS STM;Canon EF-S 55-250mm f4-5.6 STM lens;Canon 24mm-105mmf4L IS;Canon 70-300mm f4-f5.6 L IS USM;Kenko 1.4x HD TC;Canon 430EX ii flash;Giottos tripod;Manfretto monopod;Cokin P filters + bits and pieces!

        www.flickr.com/photos/nathaniel3390

        North Wales where music and the sea give a great concert!

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          #5
          Re: When the client and photographer disagree on quality...

          I was covering a youth sports event a couple of years ago and a parent came and asked me if I could make a special effort to photograph his son when competing; his son was the best in his age group and the parent was interested in buying a pic of son in action.
          My colleague duly obliged and when he came back to base he said the lad had failed at each attempt. We loaded the pix to the system anyway.
          Parent came back later and duly bought a print - RESULT!
          Truly a result as the images would have been deleted before the event was loaded on the web site as we would have thought no-one would want to buy a picture showing failure of a prized son.

          There has to be a moral in there somewhere

          David

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            #6
            Re: When the client and photographer disagree on quality...

            You are, of course, all quite correct. Those who haven't spent vast sums of money on equipment nor taken the time to learn how to use it nor are in the least bit interested are, inevitably, less critical that we who have and are.

            In my renovations here I recently discovered some framed prints I took about thirty years ago. At the time I considered them worthy of enlargement and hanging on the wall. Now I think they're terrible as my current work is so much better. However, I only have to look at the work published on this forum - let alone some of the stunning 'pro' sites on the internet - to see how far I still have to go.

            And that's the difference between those with an interest and those who seek only memories: we want to improve and are willing to do whatever it takes be it buying a new lens or taking courses while the others are happy in their ignorance.

            A friend that I regularly ride my motorbike with went to Italy on his a recently and, as I couldn't make it, said he'd show me his photographs when he got back. "What camera are you taking?" I asked. "Oh, just my phone - that'll do!". They didn't

            Cheers,
            John

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              #7
              Re: When the client and photographer disagree on quality...

              John

              I think you are being a bit harsh on yourself. I think you have some very nice photographs on Flickr. Some of the convergent verticals you could probably deal with perfectly well on LR5, and some of the excess glare or deeper shadows (blimey even the sun is a problem these days!!!) you could probably also sort out in LR. Sure, have another go for professional pride, but also listen to a satisfied punter!

              Richard
              Richard Anderson Photography at www.raphoto.me

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                #8
                Re: When the client and photographer disagree on quality...

                Just looked at your photos John and TBH they are pretty good and I would be happy with them especially as you did it as a freebie !! yes some of the verticals need shorting and so long as you've got some editing space around the house this can be sorted in LR easy, in fact some of the auto features may even pull them straight for you
                :- Ian

                5D Mk III, 24-105 / 70-200 f2.8 L / 100-400 Mk II / 100 macro / 16-35 L / 11-24 L / 1.4 & 2x converters and a bad back carrying it all ;o)

                :- https://www.flickr.com/photos/fotosespana/

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                  #9
                  Re: When the client and photographer disagree on quality...

                  John, I think that's a pretty decent set.
                  As others have said you are always going to see things others dont as they are your images and you know which processing part your unhappy with. It's good to be critical of your own work to a point, just know when to stop!
                  But I agree with Ricard and Tigger, Lightroom will easily sort out any verticals you want improved.
                  But if you do retake the images, I hope you are able to get the images you like.
                  Andy
                  _____________________________
                  Canon EOS 5D MarkIV, 11-24mm f4, 24-70mm f2.8 II, 24-105mm f4, 70-200mm f2.8 IS II USM, 100-400mm f4.5-5.6 IS II USM, 100mm Macro, 50mm f1.4, Speedlite 600EX-RT, Manfrotto tripod
                  http://www.flickr.com/photos/cyberdavis/

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                    #10
                    Re: When the client and photographer disagree on quality...

                    Thanks guys, I find that very encouraging; if those whose work I admire think I'm being too self critical then who am I to argue

                    I'll pass them through Lightroom (I mainly use DPP) and see what improvements I can make.

                    Cheers,
                    John

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                      #11
                      Re: When the client and photographer disagree on quality...

                      Another vote for a good set

                      I'd say all of us that post here are looking to improve their technique by sharing our images for critique, critiquing others and looking at what others are doing it and learning from it. By definition that means we're going to be critical of ourselves and not necessarily the best judge of the quality of our own work.
                      EOS 7D mk II, Sigma 150-660C, Canon 17-85 EF-S, Tamron 10-24 and a wife who shares my obsession.

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                        #12
                        Re: When the client and photographer disagree on quality...

                        Thanks Andy, greatly appreciated.

                        Cheers,
                        John

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                          #13
                          Re: When the client and photographer disagree on quality...

                          one thing to also consider John if LR won't sort it for you, which TBH I think it will you could download the demo of PS CC and that has some pretty amazing tools for getting perspective correct - just another option rather than doing a re-shoot
                          :- Ian

                          5D Mk III, 24-105 / 70-200 f2.8 L / 100-400 Mk II / 100 macro / 16-35 L / 11-24 L / 1.4 & 2x converters and a bad back carrying it all ;o)

                          :- https://www.flickr.com/photos/fotosespana/

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                            #14
                            Re: When the client and photographer disagree on quality...

                            I know what you mean and the photos actually are great. I was taking pictures for my schools new advert yesterday. They gave me a white sheet and said they wanted a clean white background and I had one flash lol. Three kids rolled in with a deadline of the afternoon. Gave them the pics and they ran with it right away after I cut them out and put them on a white BG lol all those BG changes in Kingy shots paid off lol

                            I like the big long sweeping pano shot its the win
                            Fuji X-T1 | 1D IV
                            www.campsie.photography

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                              #15
                              Re: When the client and photographer disagree on quality...

                              Thanks Tigger for the tip and Paul, I appreciate your kind endorsement.

                              I have some LR questions that I'll take to a new thread in Software.

                              Cheers,
                              John

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