I don't believe it!!

[Dave_S]

To quote Richard Wilson of "One foot in the grave" fame, I don't bloody believe it!!

Albeit perhaps, I should

A while ago, I posted a shot of a Robin, posing very nicely on a twig.

Stan said, based on his experience with judges in his area, that whereas I had bird centered in the frame, that judges preferred to see it set to one side of the frame, with space beyond it, in the direction the bird was looking. Fair comment I thought.

As I quite liked the shot, I thought I would enter it into the competition at my club tonight. Having the full size original of the 'cropped' shot, I had recomposed the image in the manner that Stan suggested, and I thought it looked ok.

The judge commented favourably, but said the fact that the bird was offset, and not centered in the frame, she couldn't award it a higher mark than she did.

Now call me cynical, but does this not demonstrate what a load of subjective "b******s" this whole photography competition business really is.

Dave

[Nathaniel]

Re: I don't believe it!!

You are quite right. It is very subjective and thats why I don't bother with camera clubs and club competitions. The winning entry IMHO is quite meaningless. It is far better to enter national and international photographic competitions. I was looking at the winning entry in the Daily mail wild life competition- results appeared in last weekend's DM magazine and I fully agree with the winning entry and the other entries.

[Dave_S]

Re: I don't believe it!!

I'm beginning to think that way too now Nat. Especially the way things have gone down hill at my club, since two competition fanatics got onto the committee (see my thread "A3 or A3 & A4).

Dave

[the black fox]

Re: I don't believe it!!

its supposed to be a hobby ,do your own thing and sod the rest .think about your blood pressure at our respective ages

[Tigger]

Re: I don't believe it!!

its supposed to be a hobby ,do your own thing and sod the rest .think about your blood pressure at our respective ages

I'm with Jeff, enjoy yourself, get out there take some snaps and mix with friends to show your images - clearly from your other thread I don't think your getting that being involved with your current group. Lifes too short my friend

[Jock]

Re: I don't believe it!!

Interesting. I've come to the conclusion that while one person thinks a photograph is great, someone else won't like it - despite it following all the "rules".
I have learned to take constructive criticism, look at my photographs and apply that, but if *I* like it, then that's good enough for me.
The only problem I find is when other people look at something I've taken and comment favourably on it and I don't like it ...

[rcarca]

Re: I don't believe it!!

As for subjectivity, you only have to look at comments on loads of photographs in this forum - some love one in a series, some another. Only very occasionally is there unanimity!

That said, from my one year as a club member (this year it has been difficult to attend so far for a variety of reasons) the subjectivity of the judges can be very difficult to stomach! What is worse is when they give a photograph of yours a high mark when you don't like it, but totally dis your favourite!!!

There is no objectivity in art!!!

Richard

[wayne2418]

Re: I don't believe it!!

its supposed to be a hobby ,do your own thing and sod the rest .think about your blood pressure at our respective ages

Yeah, right on Jeff.

[CanonLad]

Re: I don't believe it!!

There's a lot to be said for peer recognition. It can break the monotony of every day photography and give you something to work to if you haven't got enough on your plate with this industry. I'm looking at going for Licentiate of the British Institute of Professional Photographers (LBIPP) in the new year and it's a stringent process with assessment days and what not. It's not cheap either but it's something different to show the clients. Also helps with making sure your on the right path as laziness can often have us throw out sub standard work.

Club judges seem to me like film critics. They all want to make their own stamp and neither follow any rule and it's open day.

[Tigger]

Re: I don't believe it!!

Club judges seem to me like film critics. They all want to make their own stamp and neither follow any rule and it's open day.

agree and most are also so far up themselves I'm surprised they can see the photos

[ColytonJohn]

Re: I don't believe it!!

I've only ever been a member of one photographic club and realised from the outset it was run by a clique and everyone else were barely tolerated. The monthly competition was judged by the same person each time who was clearly an idiot (although he did have his sensible hat on when I won one month).

Socialising aside you need to question why you want to be in a club; if for shared equipment and facilities then a 'physical' club has an advantage. If, however, you're looking for advice and constructive criticism of your work then a 'virtual' club like this forum serves your needs. Here you don't have to endure the personality clashes or changes in direction they bring about. It's also a lot easier to ignore advice you don't like

Cheers,
John

[the black fox]

Re: I don't believe it!!

its not just the photography hobby that suffers from it either ,when i was into metal detecting the find of the month was hotly contested in both clubs i belonged to ,one had a just put it on a table for votes system ,the other had a sealed in a plain envelope system .then it would be put to the vote ,the trouble is that fred smith had found a medieval button for instance and being his first he boasted about it to all his mates in the club ,and joe bloggs who knew no one had found a gold coin ,the button would inevitably win due to the friendship vote system .

there unfortunately is no answer to any of this .as i said lifes to short which is why i tend to use flickr as my measure of whether a pics any good or not .if it gets the faves on there then its a good un if not .take some more .

[Iron Man]

Re: I don't believe it!!

Having been a member of a "Club", and submitting many images for competition, I have seen a wide range of comments from judges. Some images I thought were great, judges would mark them low, and images I thought poor could get high marks. This was not due to the old boy network as Edinburgh photo society used external judges. We were allowed to submit the same image as a print, and also as projected image. Yes, you guessed right - the same image could score 20 pts as a print and as low as 14 pts as a PI (different judges).

[Nathaniel]

Re: I don't believe it!!

I think the best way to judge how good you are is to enter national and international competitions and win something there or even get "placed". I am really encouraged by our James Woodend's getting first place in the international competition. That should really be the yardstick for anyone. The next best is to be commented favourably on this forum or even by the local press who will never accept rubbish photos for publication. As Jeff has said, life is too short and we must enjoy our hobby as best as possible without getting stressed out by club competitions. Remember, I was also a "judge" in a local photo competiton but I never went out to discourage any entrant but endeavoured to keep them all within the "loop" of photographers!.

[kelly200269]

Re: I don't believe it!!

Aristotle was musing about Politics in the fourth-century BC, and it looks like things haven't changed since then. And why would it? We're only human after all!
Whenever you get people together in a group, there will always be political agendas, whether it be photography or metal detecting. It's the nature of the human condition. It's all about whether you engage with, and participate in those political shenanigans. Some people want and need to, others do not.
I'm personally thankful for both physical camera clubs, and also 'virtual' ones like this. My own secret is not taking anything too seriously, and avoiding committees!

Committee Poem

Oh, have some pity, I'm on a committee
Which means that from morning till night,
We attend and amend and contend and defend
Without a conclusion in sight.

We confer and concur, we defer and demur,
And re-iterate all of our thoughts,
We revise the agenda with frequent addenda,
And consider a load of reports.

We compose and propose, we suppose and oppose,
And the points of procedure are fun,
But though various notions are brought up as motions,
There's terribly little gets done.

We resolve and absolve, but we never dissolve,
Since it’s out of the question for us.
What a shattering pity to end our committee
Where else could we make such a fuss!