Photography is more than a medium for factual communication of ideas...

[eeyore]

I would like to open up a discussion about Ansel Adam's quote:

Photography is more than a medium for factual communication of ideas. It is a creative art.

It is my view that many members in this forum do not really see photography as a 'creative art', nor have they learnt to 'see' (not that they have to, but...). However, this does come with practice.

I also feel people are more concerned with getting the best lens and camera, than they are in getting an image that says something.

I try with my images to see something a little different, to interpret a different angle or view and that they say something. (Whether anybody likes them is a different matter). I think photography IS just more than a factual communication of ideas; or perhaps I am too much of a deep thinker and nobody really cares, they just like to be snappy happy! (in digital photography - you really can!!)

I don't intend to tread on any toes, but want to stimulate discussion in this matter - so sometimes you have to!!

I do ask though, should this post 'stimulate discussion' that you think carefully before you respond - otherwise it will end up with hot air and no result like the previous thread that got closed due to a lot of hot air...

I want to challenge the newer photographers and even the more experienced to see the camera as a tool, to see the world through the lens, rather than rose tinted glasses!

I also think that this is what 'general photographic discussions' should be about!!

So, what do you forum members think??

[RevvinKevin]

Re: Photography is more than a medium for factual communication of ideas...

I am completely with you on this. Cameras are a tool to produce art. Whether people appreciate it or understand it is irrelevant.

[briansquibb]

Re: Photography is more than a medium for factual communication of ideas...

I am completely with you on this. Cameras are a tool to produce art. Whether people appreciate it or understand it is irrelevant.

Cameras are also tools to report facts

[Nathaniel]

Re: Photography is more than a medium for factual communication of ideas...

I regard photography as an art form- to capture an image that you like very much. Not many of us are good artists and so photography is a way out of this situation.

[eeyore]

Re: Photography is more than a medium for factual communication of ideas...

Yes, cameras are also tools to report facts, that is not disputed, but the fact that cameras are more than just tools to report 'sterile' facts. I am not exactly thinking about using the camera for 'creative art', but seeing an ordinary scene in a different light. The question being that photography is more than JUST for factual communication.

Do members agree with this or not?? Come on, let's have your ideas. After all, this is a photo discussion!

[briansquibb]

Re: Photography is more than a medium for factual communication of ideas...

Richard - I do agree with you about the camera being a tool for creative arts especially when combined with computer software such as PS.

However I do feel that the pendulum has swung the other way in that reportage photography is being squeezed out as it is easier to get a 'good' picture through photomanipulation after the fact.

I would also strongly dispute that reportage photos have to be 'sterile' - ie boring.

There is room in this world for photographs for both styles of the reportage of Cartier Bresson and photographic art of Ansel Adams

[eeyore]

Re: Photography is more than a medium for factual communication of ideas...

Hi Brian, I don't mean 'creative art' as in manipulation in PS. This is a different thing all together. I am talking about using the camera itself, using the available light, metering and so on. I do not want to include PS as this is a red herring and detracts from the main topic. Ansel Adams didn't use photoshop nor did Cartier Bresson...

Yes, indeed there is room for both styles, BUT each style has a message!!! It is the way the photographer sees the world and the moment of capture which tells a story.

Good reportage photos are indeed, NOT sterile - just think of the famous Girl in the Vietnam War photo, fleeing a Napalm Strike!!! You have to be good to capture that moment in time - frozen!!

In this way, photography can be creative.

[Muscat]

Re: Photography is more than a medium for factual communication of ideas...

I am not sitting on the fence with this even if people see my comments as that. I tend to agree with everything that has been noted above but my take on it is:-

A camera / lens is a tool to be used as a pencil or brush was years ago. There are people who are comfortable with the static record pictures and if that is what they want then that is great. I do however believe that there is also a need for people to 'open their artistic eyes' not necissarily as with a Picaso but as I think Richard is trying to say look at the scene from all angles and consider what the image would look like if you used a different view point or lens.

An example of what I mean is that you can take a picture of a towerblock face on and have a technically brilliant and very good record of the structure and suroundings this could be taken with a tilt and shift lens to keep all the verticals true and will give the user a fabulous picture that can be used in a sales brochure, you could get closer and use a wide angle lens and force the covergence of verticals to make a totally different view of the same building another example and one that I quite like is to get as close to the base of the buiding as is reasonable and point the camera with a wide angle almost vertically up the face to get a very distorted view but by including other items such as lighting colums or similar you can get a totally diferent and in my opinion more artistic view of the same subject.

None of the above need to use use any post processing or photo manipulation as it is done by using the different 'tools'.

I believe that the picture that Colin C posted after the visit to the London Wewtlands of the (I think) duck swimming across the lake with the wake coming out from it on both sides was both a good artistic shot whilst being a good record shot simply due to the way that it had been taken and the redundant colours had been blacked out.

Sorry for the dribble but what I am saying is that there is definitely room for more imagination in some shots but there is and I believe always will be a place for all aspects of photography

[briansquibb]

Re: Photography is more than a medium for factual communication of ideas...

So are we talking less conventional compositition (like Cartier Bresson) then?

[Canon-Fodder!]

Re: Photography is more than a medium for factual communication of ideas...

Hello Richard;

An excellent topic for discussion...

Another AA quote;

Landscape photography is the supreme test of the photographer - and often the supreme disappointment.

In my case - delete 'Landscape'

Learning to 'see' 'creatively' is where the crux of the matter is IMO; and that is something that I for one certainly struggle with...

I think I'm reasonably competent when it comes to shooting an image, so I 'think' I've mastered the 'science'; but 'seeing' something out of the ordinary 'the creative art' typically lets me down.

Muscat has given a supreme example of the difference between 'shooting' & 'seeing creatively' in Colin C's image of the Tufted Duck. I doubt I would ever have 'visualised' that image...

I live to learn & hope to learn much in this thread!

[Rover]

Re: Photography is more than a medium for factual communication of ideas...

I would like to open up a discussion about Ansel Adam's quote:

Photography is more than a medium for factual communication of ideas. It is a creative art.

What was his definition of 'art'. And yours, for that matter. Actually yours is probably more relavent since you are thinking about it now and have raised the subject with us.

It is my view that many members in this forum do not really see photography as a 'creative art', nor have they learnt to 'see' (not that they have to, but...). However, this does come with practice.

What is it, exactly, that you've learned to see? To me learning can also sometimes be described as conditioning. In other words, if you're told something often enough you believe it. It's also the case that if one wants to believe something one will, regardless of anything anyone else might say.

I also feel people are more concerned with getting the best lens and camera, than they are in getting an image that says something.

Plenty of encouragement on here for that.

I try with my images to see something a little different, to interpret a different angle or view and that they say something. (Whether anybody likes them is a different matter). I think photography IS just more than a factual communication of ideas; or perhaps I am too much of a deep thinker and nobody really cares, they just like to be snappy happy! (in digital photography - you really can!!)

So long as you're happy with the shots you take does it really matter what you call them? After all, something you might like very much and would describe as art another person might not like and call rubbish.

[Nathaniel]

Re: Photography is more than a medium for factual communication of ideas...

As that solid gentleman from Kent, the lover of goats has said in another thread- "beauty is in the eye of the beholder". Agrees with Rover above as well. Whilst it is nice to take some "creative shots" as Colin C has posted from Slimbridge efforts,photography like ART is a personal thing. I hate modern art but there are many who love that sort of art. My son aged 7 yrs,donkeys years ago, painted a A4 size piece of paper in black , with the faint out lines of a girl- identified via pig tails, and captioned it "my sister in the dark"!!!!!!!!!!!!! It was hanging in his classroom!!! That was modern art!

As long as a photo is nice and appeals to a lot of people, -creative or not, is something one should be happy with.

[Canon-Fodder!]

Re: Photography is more than a medium for factual communication of ideas...

As long as a photo is nice and appeals to a lot of people...

For the sake of the discussion... why does a photograph need to appeal to a lot of people?

You said yourself' "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder"!

In my never-ending attempt to better my creative self, I view a great many images, and there are many I don't like, but I can see that they are creative, competent & technically well executed; but unlikely to 'appeal' to a lot of people

[Glenn]

Re: Photography is more than a medium for factual communication of ideas...

I also feel people are more concerned with getting the best lens and camera, than they are in getting an image that says something.

Interesting comment, although there's nothing like a bit of retail therapy to make the blues go away

[eeyore]

Re: Photography is more than a medium for factual communication of ideas...

To me learning can also sometimes be described as conditioning. In other words, if you're told something often enough you believe it. It's also the case that if one wants to believe something one will, regardless of anything anyone else might say.

Very true. Just think of Chicken Little...

I haven't learnt to see - I'm still learning...how to frame a subject in the view finder and use the available lighting to bring out an image that has sole!!