What is wrong with "Britannia at speed", please?

[Dave-g-B]

I wanted to shoot this magnificent locomotive, 70000 Britannia, in a way which would show the power of the beast, its energy and movement. I decided on a panning shot instead of a straight forward 3/4 picture. The day after I took the shot I posted it into a different web site but it has been largely ignored. I know from the past that members of the EOS Forum will pass constructive criticism so perhaps someone would like to say what I have done wrong and suggest ways I could improve the result if I try another such shot. Thank you.

[Les McLean]

Re: What is wrong with "Britannia at speed", please?

The panning kind of works, the loco is crisp and clean with the rest a blur, and I think the blur is the problem, those sheep and the trees on the hill are making my eyes hurt.

I'd be tempted to clone the sheep/trees, and possibly crop a bit from the bottom, pulling the loco onto a third of the way up.

[hhcanon]

Re: What is wrong with "Britannia at speed", please?

Not a bad shot at all mate. Being a moving object you only get one chance, unless you have a fast car!
I would say its just a tad soft, but only a tad. Personally i would have shot at a slightly faster shutter speed than 1/60th and a bit closer to miss the signal. Obviously the sheep are a bit of a distraction but I think you know that from experience. I think its one of those (for me anyway) that you dont know quite what to do till it arrives and then its too late, unless you shoot this stuff all the time...its better than my efforts.

[Bawbee]

Re: What is wrong with "Britannia at speed", please?

I think you've done a great job there Dave and I agree with Les on the cropping - the only bit that 'annoys' me is the signal post on the left.

Your shot also sent a shiver up my spine. I remember climbing on board her at the Kingsmoor (?) sheds at Carlisle about 50 years ago (Oh My God ), in my train-spotting days. I also once had an electric train set with 70000 as the engine - Oh Happy Days I didn't realise that she was still 'in service', good to know.

Thanks,

[kingsown]

Re: What is wrong with "Britannia at speed", please?

a realy good effort ,but i think it needs to be zoomed in even closer no sky the likes of sheep that get in the way can be cloned out ,the panning it,s self is spot on the body of the train is sharp but i think that if your speed was slower there would be a bit more blur on the wheel rods ,try burst mode on a tripod

[Dave-g-B]

Re: What is wrong with "Britannia at speed", please?

Thank you for your speedy feedback. I couldn't get any closer because of fencing (and animals anyway !) I have tried cropping as suggested, missing out the signal and sheep. It's funny because I deliberately included the signal to give more sense of action but it obviously doesn't help. I suppose I could try a letterbox format to miss out the sky (thought it was about to rain but it just stayed grey.)



Bawbee, glad it helped the memory. I think it has been back in action for about a year. Next week it will be on the Llangollen Railway for one oif their Gala weeks. I lknow because I happened to be in Llangollen just yesterday and saw it arrive - on the back of a road transporter.

[Neilly]

Re: What is wrong with "Britannia at speed", please?

Hi Dave,

To me the picture seems a bit 'flat'. I've quickly run it through my process and there's a lot of detail that could be brought out. Firstly have a go with the shadow/highlights, then the unsharp mask and then add a bit more contrast. I prefer your second cropped version, too. Just my 2 pence worth.

TTFN,
Neil

[colin C]

Re: What is wrong with "Britannia at speed", please?

Hello Dave

It's all so very nearly there and a lot more so on the second crop.

I suspect a little help with the panning might help. You need the foreground, background and wheels of the carriage blured: which they are. But in contrast, the engine and the carriages need to be pin sharp: which they are not quite (or perhaps I am doing you a disservice because of the upload quality). Assuming I am not, here is how I would pan the shot:

• Stand square on to where I would take the shot with feet around 400 - 500mm apart.

• Hold the camera and lens comfortably, with elbows /forearm braced against your chest for a steady hold.

• If you have Image Stabilisation, set it to position 2, which is for panning

• Swivel from the waist to where you first see the train and with A1 servo engaged, lock on and track the train

• Swivel from the waist as you track the train, keeping focussed on the same spot on the engine

• Take the shot when you are facing forward, but keep panning as if you want to take a second or third shot ............... even if you don't take further shots!

That last stage is where most people fall down on their panning, as they take the shot and stop panning immediately and that's where you get some movement blur into the subject. Also, 1/60sec is a good panning speed, but if you are not too confident with your technique, or it is important to get a good shot in the bag, I would have gone a little faster at 1/100sec, or maybe 1/125sec. I used to practice and practice standing near to a fast bit of road. Used to get a few strange looks from drivers, but it was worth the effort to get confident with panning and develop a smooth technique.

Hope that helps

Colin

[Dave-g-B]

Re: What is wrong with "Britannia at speed", please?

Thank you Neil and Colin.
Neil, I have gone back to my original RAW and tried a little more processing. I've sharpened it as much as I can without it beginning to break up.
Colin, that is most of what I do at the moment although I do shoot on burst (until the buffer fills). I think it is the practice and the steady hand (especially that) which I need to work on.

[colin C]

Re: What is wrong with "Britannia at speed", please?

It does look much better sharpened, so there was nothing wrong with your panning technique.

However, you have sharpened the whole shot and it may look better if you select the engine and carriages (but not the wheels and con rods), and only sharpen what you need to. The rest of the shot slightly blured would add to the effect of speed and make the engine and carriages look even sharper.

Hope that helps.

Colin

[Neilly]

Re: What is wrong with "Britannia at speed", please?

Hi Dave,

That's looking better. Colin's advice is spot on, too.

TTFN,
Neil

[Dave-g-B]

Re: What is wrong with "Britannia at speed", please?

Thank you Colin and Neil.
During the weekend I will try and have a crack at isolating and sharpening just the engine and carriage - should be fun ;-))

[Trevoreast]

Re: What is wrong with "Britannia at speed", please?

a realy good effort ,but i think it needs to be zoomed in even closer no sky the likes of sheep that get in the way can be cloned out ,the panning it,s self is spot on the body of the train is sharp but i think that if your speed was slower there would be a bit more blur on the wheel rods ,try burst mode on a tripod

I'm pretty much in full agreement with kingsown, although I've never tried a tripod.

Given your resticted vantage point you've done well,
To be honest most of the times I've done any panning I've had time to select the best back drop possible, and to do dozen or so test shots to get the optimal settings.
You only had a small window of opportunity.

What is wrong with "Britannia at speed", please?

Sorry, for me it's mainly the overall compostion.
I think the a pano style crop (losing the sky and a lot of the FG ) will get you closer to the look you said you set out to achieve.

I hope this doesn't sound too harsh.
Trev

[Chris J]

Re: What is wrong with "Britannia at speed", please?

Like the final picture - agree that the blurred sheep and line-side pole were distracting in the original and it needed some sharpening, but what you've done to it has really lifted it.
Oh, nostalgia.....
Cheers, Chris.

[Dave-g-B]

Re: What is wrong with "Britannia at speed", please?

Thank you Trev and Chris.
No, Trev, it doesn't sound too harsh at all. I did ask so how can I object to suggestions??

I have again gone back to the RAW and cropped it for a pano plus I have tried to isolate just the engine and coach to sharpen. I may not have the same contrast, etc as previous as I did not take note. I do like this pano which is actually 6 x 2.5 in order to get rid of sky, etc. It does give it a more dynamic feel, in my opinion.